The recent youtube video… is an obvious fake.”. That’s EVIL. . You want our government to spend more money than it already does?? Issues were discovered, issues will be discovered. !….GOOD G#D ALMIGHTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Those FBI Glocks didn’t have any problems at all, oh wait, the locking blocks and triggers fell out and the slides jettisoned but PERFECTION! Note your shock and awe when there are gross inconsistencies between dimensions on seemingly the same model. This is not rocket science. But pistols barely get issued, the training regimen is woeful for pistols, because they’re really are very few folks using them in combat. This beretta slide crap was addressed before most soldiers were born. New. Hardness all over the place on the same key parts varies wildly from one gun to the next. If the M17 is going to be a primary weapon in the future, or at least integrated more, then the training curriculum really needs to change, so it might be an issue, in 3 years. Sig Sauer P320 Striker Fire Pistols For Sale. Check out the Impact Guns video review on the Sig P320 X-Carry W/ Romeo 1 Red Dot. The majority of common semi-auto pistol calibers don’t have that much recoil in guns that you can get a whole hand on. Earlier this summer, SIG SAUER announced the creation of its in-house custom shop, known as SIG SAUER Custom Works, and the P320 Custom Works Fire Control Unit (FCU) program. Unfortunately the gov’t will NEVER go with quality, and the higher (but manageable) costs that come with it. Well shit, this changes everything! The P320 Carry offers a smooth, crisp trigger to make any shooter more accurate, an intuitive, 3-point takedown and unmatched modularity to fit any shooter and any situation. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. $149.00. That is the kind of abuse that I am talking about. There is another problem that is concerning. Shooting Review: Sig Sauer P320 Carry | Eagle Gun Range Inc. The problem is getting a committee of soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines to agree on those standards….. by the time that committee agrees on those standards for that something, that something has become over complicated (i.e. taskandpurpose.com: The Pentagon’s overview on its gear and tech programs in 2017, conducted by the Office of the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation and released earlier in January 2018, indicated that both the XM17 and XM18 pistols demonstrated a series of persistent problems, including accidental discharge, ejecting live ammunition, and relatively frequent stoppages when firing ammunition encased in a full metal jacket. The 11 by the army were in testing. Also, load-bearing contact surfaces seem undersized in some areas, and oversized in others. Then 300 about a month later. I’m literally saying they should have gone with any other of the entrants that were submitted. A friend of mine has carried one his entire LE career with me, and fired untold number of rounds through it in that 30 years. As a Beretta fan (love my Beretta 96) I’m near overdosing with schadenfreude. Never mind. That’s not to say that the Sig Sauer P320 isn’t completely safe to use. Charges Bombmaker in 1988 Pan Am Explosion over Lockerbie, A Space Force Member Was Busted Down a Rank for Bailing on PT to Get a PlayStation 5, Space Force Poised to See Major Growth, New Uniforms in 2021, Congress Passes Sweeping End-of-Year Bill Impacting 'Every Corner' of the Veteran Community, Fort Hood's Top Enlisted Soldier Suspended, Investigation Pending, The VA Has a Hospital Named for a Slavery-Supporting Confederate Doctor. The settlement requires the gunmaker to … Mic a few of the dimensions via a set of lowly calipers. Don’t worry about SIG problems. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1AZyH8DutQ. Load up a magazine in capacities from 9 to 17 rounds. . Its been around about as long as the Beretta, but somehow is totally modern, Hooray for backstraps, (lack of) finger grooves, ambi controls that make previous generations’ slides and barrels incompatible, a safety that we just Dremeled into the plastic, and a needless second lanyard loop that makes previous generations’ magazines incompatible! All settlement members who continue to own their P320 pistol would receive a transferable Sig Sauer limited lifetime warranty against any future cartridge failure events, it adds. "However, to avoid the uncertainty and high costs of further litigation, Sig Sauer has reached an agreement to resolve this case. It’s perfection -‘ just ask the FBI about their get 5s. I have a P320, with upgrade. And it was more than one slide. “But it’s heavy and expensive.” I hear what your saying and Imma let you finish, but I counter your argument with the fact THE DAMN THING WORKS! Multiply by the weight of the gun and divide by twice the acceleration of gravity, and you get the recoil energy in foot pounds. Remember, Glock NEVER had a recall. I am quite certain there are mean failure ratios in the contract that have to be met or the contract will either be adjusted or Sig found in breach. Obviously Glock should have been in ….In both 9mm and 45 acp ! The Fire Control Unit (FCU), the driving force behind the modularity of the P320, now stands on its own - enabling an entirely new level of customization and personalization in the world of firearms.P320 Custom Works FCU; countless options, endless possibilities. I have that same exact problem with mine. Sig Sauer. Sig P320 Pro slides are great for those looking for a optics mounting plate while still keeping the . It was not the locking block, it was tellurium in the steel. I’m feeling nostalgic for the Glock 19. Currently shipping with 1 17RD magazine and a voucher included in the box from Sig Sauer to receive the 2nd magazine when supplies are replenished at a later date. SIG told TTAG that their work on the P320 trigger coincidentally fixed the drop safe issue. Oh I love the “cuz physics” argument. Nobody fights of war with a handgun anyways I don’t know why they thought it was such importance to update their handgun. 8/5/2017, Sigforum. Because they KNEW the sodding things were defective because they already knew about the army tests and they’d already fixed it! Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army's Modular Handgun System is based. The new disconnector was included in the company's free Voluntary Upgrade Program (VUP) offered to all owners of P320s purchased prior to Aug. 8, 2017, according to a Sig Sauer statement. Could they make the bore a little higher as well…. It may be one of the best 9mm in the market today, considering its size, ergo, capacity, and accuracy. I don’t care if it fits a hundred rounds. . A total of 14 slide failures were documented with only 3 by the Navy Seals all of which were in operational use. Quick, throw me another frame so I can swap it out! I would far rather have a pistol that defaulted to ‘safe’ if something goes wrong, than one that fires itself instead. Christ we’ve been using the same rifle System since 1965 what was the big fire to carry a new handgun. Also, tempering issues. Another turd Sig has laid. Notify When In Stock. As part of the design upgrade, a mechanical disconnector was added to "enhance trigger feel and consistency, as well as to prevent a dead trigger condition when the trigger has been pulled with the slide retracted," according to the statement. The only reason that this failure in action is happening is because Army Procurement decided to reinvent the wheel and didn’t test properly- or did test propery and didn’t select properly. Give’me a break…they’ll get it worked out. Features coyote tan finish, ambi manual thumb safety, DP Pro Plate. If approved, the settlement would refund any money paid to the company by current or former P320 owners to have their pistol repaired after what it is calling a "cartridge failure event," according to a settlement information document from Sig Sauer. Asking seriously, not as a joke. "SIG SAUER has conducted extensive testing of both the pre-upgrade and post-upgrade P320 pistols to confirm its position that the pistol will not fire with the slide and barrel in an unlocked condition.". The revelations contained therein are anything but bland. Someone in the chain simply did not want Glock winning. Speaking of perfection, does it bother anyone when someone claims that they will never, EVER, with absolute certainty, do a certain thing? The Army isn’t exactly a stellar handgun teacher to begin with, and I’d bet a lot of problems would disappear with proper training and maintenance cycles. Hunter Holmes McGuire played a pivotal role in designating medical personnel as noncombatants but had a troubling history... "They should not test us," said Army Gen. Stephen Townsend, head of U.S. Africa Command. Sig Sauer P320 XCompact Pro 9MM 3.6" Build Kit. I mean its not like your timeline is wrong or anything. They can suck on their own barrels and drop-safe their triggers right in their mouths for all I care. More important is what’s being shot out of the firearm and how much that firearm weighs. Sig Sauer Magazine: P320/P250 Compact: 9mm 15rd Capacity - MAG-MOD-C-9-15 . And, for the record, there has never been a verified instance of any P320 firing when dropped… The difference is, I’m not doing so completely unprovoked). Pardon my density, but in a world with on-demand, just in time, batch-oriented logistics n for realz mass customization … easing internal logistics with “commonality” seems off point. What specific design or production elements render it poop? The upgraded design and implementation of the VUP are intended to further enhance the drop safety of the P320 model pistol, according to the statement. Thanks in advance. The slide of the M9 (92SB) as originally adopted could fly off if the locking block broke. It usually always comes down to quality vs quantity. Sig Sauer, based in New Hampshire, makes the Army's Modular Handgun System. I really believe that Sig Sauer is cutting the production cost of their firearms to the point that they are not quality Firearms anymore they’re living off their name. Following the Senate's approval last week, the House passed the bill Wednesday by voice vote without any objections. Never heard of that one before. Required fields are marked *. When people didn’t go away, when multiple people PROVED the damn thing was unsafe (which they already KNEW it was!) The guided-missile submarine Georgia along with cruisers Port Royal and Philippine Sea transited the Strait of Hormuz. When people PROVED that it wasn’t drop-safe, they said “shut up, go away, you don’t know what you’re talking about” — when they knew for a FACT that it wasn’t drop-safe. Front sight cannot be changed They’d be better off if they just looked at some ammo that doesn’t befoul the 1899 Hague Convention. Range Sessions. Right?! . Add to Wish List Add to Compare. $30.00. New. Special Price $99.92 Regular Price $129.00. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Can any body just say GLOCK……It has been around alot longer and in 8 yrs of carring a G19 and 1000’s of rounds I’ve never had a failure. As a mechanical engineer I’ve been saying this all along–the P320 (along with its parent, the P250) is a dog turd. There’s a reason why there is so much xm855 and xm885 on the market. Your email address will not be published. The U.S. District Court for the Western District of Missouri is scheduled to hold a hearing June 25 to consider whether to approve the settlement and a request for attorneys' fees and expenses of up to $850,000, plus a payment of $1,400 to $2,800 for each named plaintiff, according to Sig Sauer. I just don’t like the way it feels, it’s just too damn big to be wrapped around the 9mm cartridge. Does not have a rail for a light. However, the P320 loses points to the Glock in terms of safety. I’m sure that Swat Officer who got shot in the leg felt the same way, before he got shot in the leg. I really think that the United States Army should shitcan Sig Sauer. Must be nice. Over the last year, my SIG Sauer P320 XCompact has seen everything from snow and sub-zero temperatures to rain and hot summer days at the sandy section of the range. SIG SAUER Custom Works has unleashed the soul of the P320. Problems with every sidearm they’ve chosen since dumping the 1911a1. That’s it so far, but there’s been nary a bobble with either Blazer Brass FMJ or Speer Gold Dot (150rds). $1,149.99. It’s not the number or rounds fired. The Sig Sauer P320 is also an excellent choice for those of you that live in an area with strict gun laws, for obvious reasons. The Army put out specs to specifically exclude Glock (which had to make a bunch of modifications to even meet the basic requirements). Inside the Pentagon’s DOT&E FY 2017 Annual Report, a standard bureaucratic work product usually full of dry legalese regarding expensive weapons systems soon to be canceled for cost overruns, there is a section on the Sig Sauer XM17 / XM18 pistols. Everybody wants perfection but the fact of the matter is perfection isn’t in play in business deals – acceptable levels are. As the poster above said, this is not new tech. unreliable) and obsolete…. /sarc. So Sig knew their POS P320 wasn’t drop-safe, and they foisted it on us consumers anyway. Quick view Sig Sauer. It isn’t the same thing as being deployed in the field. SIG chose to design the P320 as a striker-fired handgun with a relatively high mass metal trigger with no trigger safety – despite the fact that this safety feature has been included on almost every striker-fired handgun since the 1970s. At least no one got hurt this time. Quick view Sig Sauer. That is a myth that was purposely spread by Beretta. Exactly. Tellurium is added to increase machinability, by increasing chip breakage. The army should have just modified them to a G model, put some thin grips on them and called it a day. It’s been 100% reliable from the first day, which btw saw 250 rounds through it that day. The whole scenario has left a Sauer taste in my mouth. It should have been the Army’s choice. All rights reserved. Add to Cart. I don’t even like Glocks that much but this should be grounds for a lawsuit. And according to my Dad when I had him read this, why he threw a fit when they took away his M14 and gave him a “…piece of junk, jam-o-matic, pansy M16”, cause they jammed all the time and hence he had no time for one, yet that’s still the basic design used by our Military… They fix this and that as needed and that’s why you’ve got a 30 year history of M9 use. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. Times are changing and the striker fired polymer king Glock, is being given a run for its money by Sig Sauer. Customers Also Viewed. They’re worse than Springfield. Without knowing the “proper” temper, it just reeks of gross inconsistency. Why they didn’t just switch to the fnx or fns is beyond me. Marines have not even begun to budget for these and are buying G19Ms for deployed. Only one of them could positively say that they were using hot ammo. And these are the die-hard P-Series Pistols that have been around for years. Glock, Glock, and oh yes, Glock. This is it, no question. The pistol they presented was a huge piece of trash. “There were two trigger splintering hardware deficiencies observed during the IOT&E. Maybe you should try actually gripping the gun instead of letting it flip around. Nostalgic for slides flying off and hitting people in the face? Sig Sauer P320 M17 Caliber X-Change Kit. Heck, even in supply chain land, the cost of “stuff” skews ever more toward clerking and tracking. Yea I own a P320, reliable and no issues. +1. But it IS your fault when you’d decide to be a condescending ass about it (and yes, I’m aware that I’m also being a condescending ass. "Although this disconnector serves as a redundant safety against the pistol firing in an unlocked condition, it is not its primary function and is not necessary to prevent such occurrences.". Find out why the Sig P320 was awarded the 2016 American Rifleman Golden Bullseye "Handgun of the Year' award. A Navy SEAL was injured this way when they were using overpressure ammunition in it. They stood by and didn’t say a damn thing when an officer got shot in the leg by their defective pistol. Cool. Too heavy They’re worse than Cheaper Than Dirt. 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Sig Sauer P320 Sub-compact or Sig P365: The Final Verdict When it comes to P320 sub-compact or P-365, our final verdict declares the P-365 pistol as the winner. Of course they did. Grayguns Sig Sauer P320 Competition Adjustable Trigger System - Straight . Usually get what you pay for. They knowingly, purposely, sold a known defective product that could hurt people, to innocent customers. Two days ago omahaoutdoors.com ran a blandly titled post entitled Pentagon Weapons Testing Office Report on the SIG MHS / XM17. Sig Sauer P320 and P250 Magazines for Sale Offer Durability and Performance Get the reliability and superior fit you need from a name you know. Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army's Modular Handgun System is based. This is why it baffles me when they had a pistol system that worked but it didn’t fit good and smaller people’s hands. Bring back the Beretta and get over this modular handgun system crap. I don’t know, I’ll stick with systems with a proven track record, not this LATEST AND GREATEST BS. If your left handed you should learn to shoot right-handed before basic training was over. If they wanted to have a compact pistol for CID then there were many off the shelf options available. Even worse, the report recommends the Army engineer some fixes “upon identification of the root cause” of the ejection issue — a statement that indicates the branch hasn’t yet identified the source of the issue. Sig Sauer P320 M17 commercial variant of the military contract sidearm. Now we are seeing the results. Sig Sauer P320 Owner, We currently have many of our P320 Caliber Exchange kits in stock in both Compact and Full sizes that I am also authorized to offer discounts on. The military wanted a modular pistol and that’s what they got. All animosity aside, how exactly does a pistol eject live ammunition? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1AZyH8DutQ. Glock's Worst Nightmare: Sig Sauer's P320 Is One Dangerous Gun by Charlie Gao When a variant of the SIG Sauer P320 was adopted by the U.S. … So, Seans, I had the details wrong, but the way you put it actually sounds worse than I thought it was. That sucks. . The SIG P320 price at Omaha Outdoors drives tacks through the competition. The P320® Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost. The Glock 19 is one of the safest guns you’ll come across. Sig Sauer P320 Nitron Compact 9mm Semi-Automatic Pistol, Blk - 320C-9 … I’m not saying they should have gone with the Glock. It also reduces fatigue resistance. Add to Cart. And I’m just sitting here with my CZ P-09 that I can’t get to malfunction no matter what I do…. An Iraqi military statement said an "an outlawed group" launched eight rockets targeting the Green Zone. Add to Cart See Details. I don’t care how many foreign garrison based Armies use a Glock. Training problems will happen, user error will come into play, all kinds of things will pop up. Its carry frame is ideal for target shooting and home defense, as well as some concealed carry scenarios. correct. The suspension is unrelated to a recent report that found significant faults in Fort Hood's command climate and culture. I guess it’s time to go buy that Desert Eagle, since I’m now aware of these magical slide properties. Not one weapon on the planet hasn’t had some sort of “glitch” to be fixed. They also need better maintenance programs. “….Unfortunately the gov’t will NEVER go with quality…”. Regular readers will remember our ongoing coverage of the polymer pistol’s drop safe problem, leading to a “voluntary recall.” We now learn that SIG knew about the issue long before it hit the media . Or, just go back to solid reliable modern 1911 s……. – the Army will have M9s for the next 10 years at least. The US never signed on, but we’ve abided by it, so look at something like the Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator/Defender that isn’t a hollow point, can defeat at least level II armor, is fairly barrier blind, and functions within spec pressures. As you know, the outside of SOF the military cannot accommodate personal preferences. They don’t DO that. To me, isn’t this REALLY similar to the Smith .38, the 1911, the Beretta, issues, when they started shipping them to the Army? Out of Stock. They’re dead to me. The slides would have fatigue cracks at the corners of the notches where the locking block ears would engage the slide. Exceptional guns. They should have bought the FNX-45!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The bureaucracy that fielded the report exists to find problems. That’s what happens when an organization as big as the army makes a change to a system as big as the M17 project. . SIG’s P320 is having a hard time staying out of the news. Private snuffy uses gear in ways it was not intented. Most units will never get the pistol despite the plans for secondary arms because no unit has the additional training time for a weapon that is only useful for looking friendly during Key Leader Engagements. I also know how to handle my firearm and don’t go around dropping them either. © Copyright 2020 Military.com. Jesus, Ted, did they make you buy one? The SIG Sauer P320 is a modular semi-automatic pistol made by SIG Sauer, Inc. of Exeter, New Hampshire, and SIG Sauer GmbH of Eckernförde, Germany.It is a further development of the SIG Sauer P250, utilizing a striker-fired mechanism in lieu of a double action only hammer system. OEM Sig Sauer P320 Takedown Lever, Tungsten DLC Part# 1300777-02-R Note: Does not include O-Ring (38. Normally known for its double action, single action hammer fired pistols, Sig Sauer is the gold standard for semi-auto handguns. Misguided? "It is Sig Sauer's position that the design of the P320 pistol -- both pre-upgrade and post-upgrade -- prevents the P320 pistol from firing in an unlocked condition," according to the company's statement. They had a defective product, they knew it, and they shoved it on us anyway. Sig Sauer P320 Carry Coyote for sale now at Proven Arms & Outfitters. Sig Sauer P320: Gun Review. Sincerely, truly, with all my heart — FUCK Sig. I’m guessing no one bothered looking at the source of the report, and the other programs that were evaluated, and much more significant problems noted. SIG SAUER P320 M17 $1,499.99. "Yolo, PS5 > letters of discipline," according to the service member. Here's Why, New Naval Strategy Zeroes in on China as Biggest Long-Term Threat to the US, Congress Authorizes New Arctic Icebreakers for Coast Guard, Navy, Coast Guard Search for Sailor Overboard off USS Theodore Roosevelt, A Marine Reveals Everything Right and Wrong with that 'Mandalorian' Mortar Trooper, Netflix Reminds Us that the $6 Billion Dollar Soldier Is Coming Soon, Here Are the 10 Best Military Movies of 2020. US shooting competitors run their handguns a lot harder than the Army does and they have universally moved to polymer framed pistols. In other words, you simply square the velocity of recoil, which is easily calculated when we know the weight of the bullet and powder charge and its velocity when exiting from the muzzle. Best I can figure, if they’re not talking about a light strike that they are manually racking out of the chamber, is one spectacular double feed. Nominate Them For A $1,000 Prize From AARP, Fewer Military Recruits Dropped Out of Boot Camp in 2020. But why not just keep the M9. just reinvent the wheel…. So, I suspect that the lighter trigger installed for the Sig Voluntary Upgrade Program and in current production, has the same weakness. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. So you’re saying that, no matter what other physics concepts effect recoil (and there are many), the return of the slide will always, no matter what, 100% of the time, no matter what other variable there are, completely negate any kind of recoil or loss of sight picture? That’s right, they want to avoid the slide causing the sight picture going down too far! Polymer is as far as you can get from “universal” adoption. Would it be inappropriate to interject at this point that if one is going to copy Glock, then one should copy them properly? Much better for our troops is a modern polymer frames compact sized handgun like the G19 or P320. $499.99. How about the F35, How about the FBI Glock, How about the …. That’s unconscionable. SIG SAUER, Inc. is proud to announce the Nevada Highway Patrol has transitioned to the SIG SAUER P320 9mm pistol as their official duty pistol. And yeah, I’m buying the P365 ASAP. We stock the Sig Sauer P320 and P250 magazines for sale that are manufactured to exacting standards and precise specifications. Is it time to mention that Glocks don’t fire when dropped, only fire when the trigger is depressed, and feed FMJ ammunition rather well? Shop By. I am a fan of many platforms but not a fanboy of any, shit happens. Thankfully, their Jedi mind trick didn’t work on most of us. Steyr Arms loses patent claims against NH-based SIG Sauer's P320 and P250 handguns Steyr Arms Inc. filed the suit in 2017; a judge has ordered the case closed. The SIG Sauer M17 and M18 are service pistols used by the United States Armed Forces.. On January 19, 2017, the United States Army announced that a customized version of the SIG Sauer P320 had won the Army's XM17 Modular Handgun System competition.The full-sized model will be known as the M17, and the smaller-sized carry model will be known as the M18. Just doesn’t make any damn sense to me whatsoever wasting all this money on a pistol program that turned out to be crap just like six hours usually are. TTAG has placed a call to SIG SAUER for comment. Notify When In Stock. It’s a huge project. , Hell, the USMC settled this argument…its called the G19 Glock!!!!…NaHell!!!!! Your email address will not be published. I changed my mind about that P365. For the most versatile pistol, available in an extensive variety of models and features, the Sig Sauer P320 for sale right here is one that can’t be beat. Oh, I’m sorry. The military relies heavily on space-based technologies to keep its edge on the battlefield. The GAO report is quite clear. Meanwhile I’ll just pop some popcorn, enjoy the show and keep enjoying my Beretta 96. Virginia Gov. Around 14minutes he starts talking about the locking block. But they’ve been using rifles made out of recycled Schlitz cans and melted Pringles lids for years. I’ve had a lot of problems with Sig Sauer over the years with customer service and just junk breaking Inside their pistols. After almost a year and 5,000 rounds, let’s take a look at how the SIG Sauer P320 XCompact did. Should have completed the tests before choosing. And at least one cop was shot by it. SIG SAUER P320 Engraved Edition with 10 rd magazine $1,149.99. “Hey, Sarge! SIG SAUER P320 X-Carry Pistol in 9mm. The plaintiffs in the case -- who number more than 100, according to court documents -- claim that P320 pistols made before Aug. 8, 2017, do not include a mechanical disconnector, a feature that blocks the pistol's ability to fire when the slide and barrel are in an unlocked condition. I get putting less work on the shooty guys. There will always be problems encountered when mass producing enough guns to accommodate the armed forces and the public. Only useable by those with gorilla hands . I love Chris Bartocci. How did the introduction of the M16 go?